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Subject: Mixing 'giving documentation' and 'going into
details'
Peter Zegers wrote, commenting on what he before in the posting quotes from Waage with: "Unfortunately I haven´t found the article from Erziehungskunst", so I can´t comment on it. Waage only makes a general claim without going into details. This is what I had in mind when I wrote that Waage (and Fant) make bold claims without giving any documentation."Me [Sune:] For this Waage gives the reference: *10) See the magazine Erziehungskunst no. 2/1996, Stuttgart 1996* On this your comment mixes 'giving documentation' with 'going into details'. Waage clearly gives documentation, even though he does not go into the details of the article. It's five years old and I don't have it at present. After his holiday, he probably will be able to do it himself. If Dan or somebody else has 'Renewal', published by AWSNA, there was an article in it probably some years ago on 'Integrating Aboriginal Culture into Waldorf Schools in Australia' by Gilbert Van Kerckhoven, that possibly gives similar info as the article in Erziehungskunst. PZ, quoting Waage:: "In one such school, the majority of teachers and students are Aborigines. 11"Me [Sune:] For this, Waage also documents the source of the info: *11) According to a telephone conversation 8.4 2000 with "Rudolf Steiner Training Seminar" in Melbourne, this is located in Alice Springs, Northern Territory.* As has been made clear in earlier posting, this at present is not yet the case, but still is something in the process of becoming a reality. That it according to an administrative person at Alice Springs Steiner School has got some magazine coverage recently indicates it has been noted in the community on some level and found to be enough of a reality to write about it. PZ, quoting Waage:: "This is not unique. Contrary to what should be expected from a racist Nazi-ideology, Anthroposophy has had its break-through in schools and other social institutions in most of the world. There are Waldorf schools in Israel, Egypt, in the second largest Indian reservation in America (the Sioux), in several South American countries (among other things, anthroposophists are making a considerable effort on behalf of street children in Rio de Janeiro), India, Korea, Japan, South Africa and other African countries, Russia, Mongolia, and Kazakhstan - just to mention some of the "exotic" places.12 "Me [Sune:] In the notes, Waage documents as the source of this: *12) See e.g. Stefan Leber (Hrsg.): Anthroposophie und Waldorfpädagogik in den Kulturen der Welt, Stuttgart 1997. Here one can read, among other things, an interview with Dr. Ibrahim Abouleish who has been heading the cultural initiative SEKEM outside Kairo for twenty years, with schools, farming, and hospitals. Substantial parts of Egypt's cotton farming is conducted with bio-dynamical methods as a result of the experience reaped from these activities. Abouleish is a Muslim and an anthroposophist.* In a posting on 26 June, the day before you rejoined this list, I mentioned an URL; http://www.waldorfschule.de/frameset2.htm giving links to the addresses of most of the schools Waage mentions; http://www.waldorfschule.de/schulen/AdrAsien.html for Waldorf schools in India, Israel, Japan, Kasachstan, Kirgistan and the Philippines, http://www.waldorfschule.de/schulen/AdrAfrika.html giving the addresses of Waldorf Schools in Egypt, Kenya, Namibia and 19 in South Africa, http://www.awsna.org/education-usa.html for a number of Waldorf Schools in US, http://www.waldorfschule.de/schulen/AdrSuedAmerika.html pointing to http://www.sab.org.br/pedag-wal/lawaldir.htm for Waldorf schools in Argentine, Brasil, Chile, Ecuador, Columbia, Mexiko, Peru and Uruguay in South America. Info on the WS or WSs in Korea, Mongolia and Russia seems to be still missing at http://www.waldorfschule.de/schulen/AdrAsien.html As to SEKEM outside Cairo, Cairo Times (Volume 4, Issue
35 9 - 15 november 2000) at http://www.cairotimes.com/content/archiv04/agriculture.html
For those reading Norwegian, it is mentioned in an article by Kaj Skagen, Norwegian anthroposphist and cultural personality, on 'Beyond freedom and powerlessness', in the general cultural magazine Samtiden (The Present) nr 1/2001 at http://www.aschehoug.no/samtiden/01_1/art2.html For a page on the Monte Azul Community Association in
Rio de Janeiro, see http://www.southerncrossreview.org/9/monteazul.htm
(found via http://www.southerncrossreview.org/back12.html)
For a part of a work on it by its main initiator; Ute Craemer, see
The note (11) by Waage points to a number of all the initiatives being described in Stefan Leber (Hrsg.): Anthroposophie und Waldorfpädagogik in den Kulturen der Welt, Stuttgart 1997. PZ, quoting Waage: The curriculum is adapted to local cultural traditions, and at the same time endeavors to make the students suited to live in a modern, globalized world. During the apartheid regime in South Africa, the Waldorf schools were the only ones where black and white students attended the same classes, and the school for Waldorf teacher training in Cape Town, The Novalis Institute, was praised by UNESCO as an organization of tremendous consequence in the conquest of apartheid.13Me [Sune:] In the notes, Waage documents as the source of this: 13) Tolerance: The Treshold of Peace. A Teaching/Learning Guide for Education for Peace, Human Right and Democracy, UNESCO 1994. What the preliminary version of the UNESCO report
As is clear from the UNESCO report, this seems to be a quote from a report published by the Novalis Institute itself. It however does not say who wrote the judgement. That the UNESCO report quoted it indicates its author judges what it quotes as something to be taken seriously. Maybe the final version of the UNESCO report or the report from Novalis Institute itself can clarify the point. PZ, quoting Waage: "The readers of Humanist don't get to know about any of this."Waage refers to Peter Staudenmaier's first article, published at PLANS' site. It seems clear that what what he writes on this is true. Staudenmaier does not mention any of it in his propaganda article against Rudolf Steiner and the anthroposophical movement. In view of all of the above, it stands out as somewhat unclear what you refer to with your comment on what you quote: Waage only makes a general claim without going into details and ... without giving any documentation.Waage probably is about as clear as is normal in debate articles as far as the details are concerned that you quote him on. He also clearly in the notes documents the sources for what he claims in the article in such a way that anybody interested in them can check out the sources for themselves. Anyone with access to internet also within few minutes can find most of the info I mention above, using a common large search engine. Although I fail to see the revelance for the debate, I can assure Mr. Nordwall that I rejoined this list without being "recruited" by Dan Dugan, Peter Staudenmaier or anyone else.You can call me Sune :-) Nobody calls me Mr on this list. I asked, as I wrote a long comment on PS' first article in a side note in a posting justs before you joined the list and nobody has answered it yet. Regards, Sune Nordwall
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